I'm not completely sure what everybody on here is looking for but one thing that is certain is that if anyone gets their entire debt forgiven than you should not get to keep your degree. In other words, your degree should become invalid, null and void, the records from the college should be erased.
The reason I say this is because not only is it not fair to the tax payers to half to foot the bill but why should people that don't have a degree be forced to compete with people that got one for free. Anyone who thinks that their debt should be wiped while holding on to there degree is a greedy selfish person, as the saying goes, you can't have your cake and it too!
King TUT,
Read my post please.
Loren Nichols, M.D.
P.S. I am a Republican, not a liberal.
Not get to keep my degree? I got a B.S. in Chemistry in 1988, an M.D. in 1992 and finished my orthopedic training in 1997. (By the way, you can't work in med school and if you were caught "moonlighting" during residency you were kicked out). I was #7 in my med school class and I did my orthopedic training at the best (certainly most prestigious) orthopedic program in the United States. I began paying my student loans for the 8 years I practiced. Then I got a rare type of pancreatic cancer (like Steve Jobs had). I have had a total of 8 major operations including a liver transplant and am now diabetic from having most of my pancreas removed.
I may never get to practice again. And if I did my cancer will most likely return so I certainly won't get to practice to age 65 (I'm 46).
Due to some quirks with health insurance and medications that cost $12,000/month what little savings I had is gone. I am on Social Security Disability as a result of my regular disability insurance that I paid for for 13 years getting out of paying me on some fine print my only income is SSDis.
I STILL owe $94,000 in student loans after paying on it for 8 years. Should they take away my degrees?????????
Think about this! Most doctors coming out of med school will probably owe at least $250,000. Doctors incomes continue to fall as they did each of the 8 years I practiced and the last 8 years. Obamacare is going to lead to doctors even making less. Most docs I know that are in their mid 50's or so are RETIRING). Medicine is miserable to them because most are working twice as hard as they did 20 years ago and only making half as much. Who will be left to take care of me, you, my kids??? FMG's (foreign medical graduates) and Nurse Practitioner. A Nurse Practitioner is a cost-saving idea the government came up with to provide the primary care that Family Practitioners, Internists and pediatricians used to provide. female M.D.'s (who usually work part-time) will still be around, but they will be running "Concierge" practices and charging a premium price. So when you're having your heart attack you can say "Nurse, please save me" or get the doctor trained in Pakistan... and you won't be able to understand his English! Just think about how hard it is to understand what American-trained American doctors are telling you.
I am sorry to ramble on about medicine, but it is what I know. But, with at least 50% of college graduates are not getting jobs in their field of study what other American predominated professions will disappear. Half of them are not getting jobs BECAUSE THERE AREN'T MANY JOBS TO BE HAD. So until the American job market and economy recover (if they ever do) it would be a good idea not to strap them to a huge payment--like the psychologist to be that said he was making $15/hour in a public clinic.
And I would bet the person who said to take our degrees away already paid his student loans in the 90's when the economy was good or he was from a wealthy family and is pissed that some of the taxes he pays would subsidize this.
And if you own a business or service company who is going to buy your product or service??? It won't be the college grads from 2008 on!
Sir, I would gladly exchange my cancer for the ability to work like I used to do fixing bones and would gladly pay my student loans.
Two years ago I finished a Masters Degree in Counseling Psychology- a 3 yr program. I thought that by taking out loans for a Master's degree I could both increase my earning potential and begin a rewarding career helping others to live healthier and more fulfilling lives. At the time I had about $25,000 in undergrad debt. To date my student loan debt is around $111,000. I work in a community mental health agency making $15.00/ hr. Currently my loans accrue about $600.00/ month in interest.
I have been putting 50-75% of my income towards my loans, however I struggle to find money for basic neccesities. The cost of living has risen since I began my Master's program but the wages I am making do not reflect this. I want to pay my loans off. I want to make a payment every month that will have an impact and actually pay them off.
However I cannot afford to rent my own apartment, buy a house, car or start a family.
At the very least the government should lower the interest rates or cease them entirely.
If I did not have student loan debt, say it were forgiven, every one of us that is paying this huge bill to the governement each month could be investing it in our communities. Additionally, we should support people going to school and still being able to have lives when they get out because this is better for all of us. This makes all of our communities better. The cost of school has skyrocketed in the past 30 yrs as has the cost of living.
Our economic system needs reform. Thomas Jefferson knew that should we ever put the control of our money system in the hands of private bankers(Federal Reserve) our country would face grave corruption.
He said,
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
If the governement will bail out private bankers then perhaps forgiving student loans isn't such a bad idea. Here is another TJ quote about education,
1786 August 13. (to George Wythe) "I think by far the most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness...Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people. Let our countrymen know that the people alone can protect us against these evils [tyranny, oppression, etc.] and that the tax which will be paid for this purpose is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance."[2]
If the banks can get bailed out, then why can't student loan debt? The degree should NOT become invalid.
As above, we are too small to save individually. Hopefully en masse, we merit attention.I'd gladly work my loans off somewhere and am looking for public repayment options.
Guess what? they can have my degree and a half, NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!
Your idea makes about as much sense as saying if a person gets a divorce, the wife should stop using her husbands last name and her children should be declared illegitimate! Do you also suggest that the person should lose their job, too? The very job that they got in order to try to keep afloat? If a person has a car repo'ed they should lose their driver's license as well? a person can't pay their medical bill, the doctors should go back in and break their leg or re-infect them with whatever sent them to medical care in the first place? If they can't pay the department store, should the person be stripped naked and made to walk around in rags? Hey, while we're at it, let's forget the constitution of the US and put a clamp on freedom of speech and bring back debtors prisons like they have in Merrie Ole England. IDIOT!!! You're probably one of those nosy jerks who has a MOUNTAIN of debt, but write on message boards how you pay for everything with cash including your house...a sure sign that they're full of bull because you have to have credit and a loan to qualify for a mortgage...unless you're a drug dealer or independently wealthy, NO ONE pays for big ticket items with cash!! You probably are one of those nosy mofos who look into a person's shopping cart and then judge them by whether or not they pay with cash or food stamps...and god forbid if the person is overweight and they buy ice cream or something! Who are you to call anyone greedy and selfish. Your comments prove that you are very self-righteous and that's just as bad if not worse. What you suggest is NOT forgiveness but punishment!!!
Aaaaaaaaaand let me guess- you don't have a college education as well as no debt?! A clear tell of an uneducated individual (besides their need to berate and attempt to demean others) is misspelling common words used in everyday language! Such as the word "lose" (not "loose"-UGH! And putting "half" for the word "have"...huh?? That's a new one!
And oh don't get me started on not knowing how to properly use the word "their" as a possessive (FYI- it's "their degree" NOT "there degree"!)!
And I won't even start on your poor grammar!
Now as to your theory that those who do not possess a degree should not have to compete with "people that got one for free"- is beyond ludicrous!!! You EARN a degree- it is never free in ANY sense of the word!! It takes an abundance of energy, willpower, determination, fortitude, intelligence, courage, not to mention countless hours of lectures and studying until you don't know if you're coming or going! The pressure is immense, but the reward of earning that degree is immeasurable! You pay in the proverbial blood, sweat and tears- which are why it's almost corrupt (if not outright corrupt) that you are gouged of tens of thousands of dollars in loan debt for what could conceivably be the REST OF YOUR LIFE! And you're not just paying the outrageous cost of an average college tuition (compounded by additional funds you need to borrow to pay for the exorbitant cost of books etc. needed for all your classes! Don't even get me started on that racket! There's also housing, food etc.),but paying so much money in interest- that none of what you pay ever really makes a dent in the actual principal balance! The $5500 I was "loaned" (just one of many loans needed for my college tuition) and am still held accountable for- even though I only went to 2 WEEKS of school at Cornell University (due to a serious injury I needed to take a medical leave) - is now well over $6,000! And this is from 2003! Each monthly payment mostly goes towards the interest accruing! I grew up with a single mother and absolutely no help monetarily from my absent father. So there wasn't any money saved for my education or future.
We who have chosen to go to college and try to better ourselves in hopes of having a chance at a brighter future- are not taking this commitment lightly. And although I believe a good education is an opportunity that EVERYONE in the USA (as it is in many other countries)should be afforded without having to be in deep debt (if any- as it should be paid for by our government), we would be ok paying off a reasonable amount in loans- interest free- to have this opportunity! Just as I paid off my car loan in 5 yrs.
So my point to YOU, oh King Tut- who obviously bears resentment to those who have what YOU have CHOSEN not to EARN- is: There is no reason you can't earn a degree- so you can offer an employer the same credentials as others who have a college degree and “compete” with them on an even playing field.
But please do NOT assume to know what it personally takes for someone to earn a college degree(s) and what it feels like to finally achieve your goals and finish college only to have the ever present burden of the amount of debt the average University puts you in!!! How hard it is to find a job in your chosen field even though you are highly-if not overly- qualified for the position, all the while having the anxiety of your mounting monthly bills on top of your insane student loans!
I apologize for the lengthiness of this retort, but your flippant comment and degrading reply to "LahDeeDah"-really irks me to no end!! Get a clue!! And the other person was right as well, an education/knowledge is one of the few things that NO ONE can take from you once you have it!! So go ahead take our titles and degrees away in exchange for lowering our debt-we'll still get a job before you because we have the skill set and knowledge that you don't and that wouldn't take a potential employer very long to figure out!!
One could give back their degree but the education could not be returned. Instead, those who can't pay for the loans they took out get to continually pay on the loans for the rest of their lives. For those that really couldn't pay and were forced to default, they probably end up paying more than 500% of what they originally borrowed (for regular people who struggle but continue to pay, it's only about 200-500% the original amount they borrowed). I think it's a clean swap...I'd rather lose my degree than face a lifetime of debt slavery especially if I'm in dire straits.
I'd gladly give back my degree because it has actually been a hindrance when it comes to finding a job. No one wants to hire someone with a BA degree to work minimum wage jobs and my education apparently doesn't leave me qualified for entry-level work in my field.
Lose not loose (pet peeve).
On my new job with my new Ph.D. I make $100 less each month than I did with my masters after I repay my loan. I don't know if anyone brought up the sacrifices we made to get our educations; these were not "free" on any level! I put in 15 to 20 hour long days earning my Ph.D. I worked full time to support my family, switched to night shift to enable me to complete an internship, drove 3 hours each day to said internship 4 days a week, and lived on basically 4 hours of sleep to allow me to get up at 3 AM EVERY morning, day in and day out for 4 years to write my dissertation and get to internship/work. I ended up with huge health problems that are chronic as a direct result. I paid for this degree literally with body and soul in having NO LIFE for 6 years: there was no time/money for entertainment, self care, friendships fell away, my husband was a "Walden widower". It was school and work, 24/7, 365 for 6 grueling years. The stress of writing a dissertation cannot be put into mere words and each delay--even (often) if it was due to an adviser taking a 6 week vacation or "forgetting" to review my changes--cost me $365 a week and added 10's of thousands of dollars to my debt! We couldn't afford to have Thanksgiving one year! After I paid for clinicals and trips for mandatory supervision, we were simply too poor, and I make fairly good money. College degrees are expensive and there are no alternative ways to earn them except signing on for years of education and--unless you are wealthy--thousands of dollars in debt. You can pay as you go, but some programs don't allow you to work while attending and most colleges have a 10 year rule: earn the degree in 10 years or your older classes are null and void! So, you earn your BA/BS, or MA/MS or Ph.D. in the allowed time lines and you will accrue thousands of dollars of debt! If you're going for some sort of licensure that goes with them, the state and federal regulations are very strict and the public demands competently trained professionals and you cannot bypass any of the process; it adds even more to the debt load, no choice! Isn't the life sacrifice enough without being saddled with paying $1000's a month for the next 10-30 years? I would gladly return the degree,but give me 6 years of my life--and my health--back in return!
I don't really agree that Student Loan debts should be 'forgiven', but I also don't agree with your revocation view regarding Degrees obtained under a Student Loan debt that could be discharged/forgiven.
I think Student Loan lenders should be subject to the same lending guidelines, usury limits and overall sound lending practices that every other Reg Z lender is subject to. Student Loan lenders are exempt from many of the policies and regulations (maybe in part because they are so heavily government backed, no clue), and it allows them to turn student loan borrowing into home-loan style lending... costing the borrower 2, 3 or 4 times what it was to obtain the degree in the first place.
I borrowed nearly $85,000 to fund my Double Masters.. I don't regret it. However, I regret that I have 26 years left to pay, and will end up owing more than $175,000 for my degree, once it's said and done. Student loan lenders reap the rewards of lending policies that really aren't regulated (comparative to other lending institutions and guidelines). They follow basic do's and dont's.. but overall, they do whatever they want.
So, do I think my degree should be revoked if I pay > $85,000 towards my loan, no.
I think BK and such is totally nonsense, if you honestly and truly are in a position (loss of job, medical, etc) where you CANNOT pay / repay the debt.. and it's proven that you didn't commit fraud. Your comment about students "stashing" money, is probably half-true, but with technology these days, lenders are more than able to view borrowing habits on accounts to restrict possible lending situations where this occurs. I think the system would "catch on" before too many students (or others) can figure out how to cash advance the heck out of their cards and BK right after 6 months. In any case, that stuff is considered fraud in the courts view and the BK would be thrown out.
So yea, I'm on both sides here, but I do really think they need to inact better regulation for Student Loan oriented lenders.. There is no way I could have saved $85,000 to go to school. I hate that it is going to cost me as much as it will, because I wanted (needed) to further my education. Holding people hostage and APR'ing them to death over 30 years isn't very productive for anyone but the lender.
Oh, and a last comment. As a full-paying tax-payer, I'd much rather pay taxes to help fund those people that choose to hose the system and file BK... I rather NOT pay taxes to fund the government bailout of AIG and Bear Stearns, and related big-banks that f'ed the system by doing as they did. The lenders made the loans, it's not the end users sole fault for the problems that occurred. I'd much rather see my money / tax go somewhere other than more big-bank bullcrap.
My thoughts may not be spot on, but it's been an 18 hour day. The gist is there tho.
Thanks... my .02.
--Thundr101
If anybody learned anything out of this economy crisis is that no one is too big to fail.
If you lose your job, and can’t pay the mortgage the city loses the tax revenue.
With a growing number of students defaulting on their student loan, pretty soon the government will have to bailout the banks again; only this time will have a special designation towards the student loan debt totaling approximately $550 billion, and not before a complete reform of the school system in this country.
We have to stop the greedy schools from constantly dipping into the bottomless pool of money provided by the government. The more money the government provides; the higher the cost of education. Regardless of how much money is poured into education, it is never enough. The cost of education is artificially high because of the government’s interference, just like everything else; real estate, wall street, health care; the next bubble is the student loans. Students are acquiring enormous debt just to receive an education, and the cost is going up every year to the point of becoming a bad investment. Recent statistics show that only one out of two graduates finds employment.
We want to change that. Please visit the “Restoring the Meaning of Education” at:
I'm very confused as to what this "movement" stands for...student loan forgiveness?? Are you kidding me?? Should I start protesting for bar tab forgiveness? or shopping spree forgiveness? You chose (as did I) to take out the loans, no one forced you to sign them, and after school you pay them back. It's very simple.
Does this mean the services of the teachers are worthless? You must pay for the services rendered. Whether it takes you 5 years, 10 years, or 25 years! What kind of incentive are we teaching this generation if we allow them to borrow tens of thousands of dollars so that it can be "relieved"?!?! I'm a 23 year old graduate student with almost $60 grand worth of loans and I plan on working as hard as I can and paying back every dime.
This movement is ridiculous! I suggest you start lining up at grocery stores and demanding free grocerie, better yet...head on down to the BMW lot because THEY OWE YOU A BRAND NEW CAR!
I know many people that used student loan money to live better than I did when they were cashing the checks - Pay your bills and shut up - refinance the loan at a lower rate or suck it up and pay it off - you made your beds now lie in them
Financed my education out of pocket and with employer assistance - it wasnt easy but are you kidding me? I know I am the better off for it.
Please post a video of yourself walking on water. I'd like to see if you really are as perfect and flawless as you see to want let others think you are. You're probably one of those idiots who believe all Black women are welfare queens, and every woman who gets aliminony buys fur coats and passed off the babies conceived by someone else as the husbands. What a sad world you live in. If you really think a student loan guarantees the Life of Riley, you really have no clue.
Refinancing is not an option for student loans.
I didn't know anyone who used student loan money to pay for things other than tuition, books/supplies and housing. Most people were working while attending school too, and any other things they bought with their own money. 50% of graduates are unemployed, do you have a job for all of them so they can pay their bills?
Mine paid tuition and books and that was all. I accrued probably 20K in other school related debt. I would have loved to have gone through school more frugally, but state licensure requirements did not allow.
Your comment is as left-fielded as the "movement" itself.
The movement (from what I get out of it anyways) is a big middle finger to the industry that was/has been built around student loan lending and making incredulous profit from those (students) that opt to bank with lenders that fund their education.
I don't agree that loans should be "forgiven" (unless of course there is a definitive reason, error, fraud on the schools part, etc) but I do think that people should be entitled to restructures of their loans to make them affordable as they should have been in the first place. Financing education is the next housing crisis. Loans are made, people are put under water into repayment plans that begin years down the road... all for the basic goal to further their education.
Choice to goto school? You betcha. But why should I forsake my education, because in this economy I'll never save the money to get the degree I want; and because I don't have any other choice but to borrow from a bank that is inherently going to screw me over, just to make more money. Lenders make money, I get that.. but there is a limit and they are taking in more profit and keeping people underwater... it's cyclical and is just getting worse and worse.
Hello,
I agree! I would happily endorse this, since I did not graduate from my program and still ended up with a mountain of debt. There isn't anything else for me to give up except the loan repayments.
My degree is worthless anyway.
Your argument makes no sense. People with degrees can't compete against people without them because they would not qualify for those jobs. You can't compete with a teacher without having a masters in education. period.
By your logic, then all debts should be treated the same way. NOT ONLY STUDENT LOANS. If you run up a credit card having fun and buying junk then you should have the debt follow you into the grave.
As for education...we are paying foreigners to come to this country and take jobs requiring math and science because we have a deficit of Americans that have that level of education. THATS A DISGRACE!!! We rank among the lowest in the WORLD when it comes to education....again DISGRACE...We look ridiculous going around the world pushing for democracy when we can't educate our own population! Why should the wealthy be the only ones who can afford an education or to contribute to our society on all levels?
Other civilized countries DO ALLOW students to bankrupt their loans and guess what? Their lending institutions have not gone out of business.
When an education becomes more expensive than the career is profitable, then we end up with a high percentage of defaults. That would mean that an education will become out of reach for the MAJORITY of Americans. Over 90% of our population will be laborers and America will have to continue importing professional from third world countries.
Exactly how many laborer jobs do you think are available? Particularly now that our wonderful and loyal rich American CEO's have all taken their factories outside the US to exploit the poorest around the world? If you are so worried about your tax money why not attack the bankers who pocketed trillions? Much of that money was handed over by the Federal Reserve without informing congress. That was in addition to the 7 billion.
Americans should be able to write, speak and present themselves publicly as educated and well informed people everywhere in the world.
Maybe you should invest in a little education....
BTW..some corrections: YOU WROTE, ..."anyone gets their entire debt forgiven than you should not get to keep your degree" The word you are looking for is 'then'. Then you should not get to keep.....
The records from another college should be erased. > This should be a separate sentence. YOU WROTE: ....is it not fair to the tax payers to half to foot the bill... The correct word is 'have' to. YOU WROTE: ...holding on to there degree is a greedy... The correct word is 'their'.
True, that, Bcinq. Think of the physician shortage without student loans! Few psychologists, nurses, dental hygienists, teachers, you name it. You need an education to do most jobs. This country is built on our backs so people like tut can have competent folks keep them alive and well. Give me a cardiologist license without the education and I'll gladly practice with no training and charge the going rate. Tut can be my first patient :0).
Too funny I just saw your reply to this inane moron after giving him a piece of my mind!! And we both had the same disgust as to his obvious spelling errors (NO you can't excuse them as "typos" honey!!! Your finger didn't hit the wrong key! Lmao!) and grammatical horror!! Some people are just UNreal!!
Oh, and if you're reading this King Shmuck- I'd like extra pickles on my burger, please!!
If one files for a total liquidation, Ch7 it does last for 10 years. It's not called the 10 year "mistake" for nothing. Don't believe the propoganda that once a person files bankruptcy they are home free. They are not. In fact, one is treated like a pariah. Try going into a car dealership to even ASK questions and the sales persons talks to you as though you are a criminal. Never mind the bankruptcy is a CONSTITUTIONALLY protected right and that several US Presidents and other historical figures like Benjamin Franklin filed for bankruptcy. When a person has gotten to the point of bankruptcy 9 times out of 10 it's because there are no other avenue, and they've done everything they could to solve their debt issues but to no avail. Even with the so-called 'wage earner' bankruptcy Ch 13 that stays on record for 7 years. It's not like anyone gets off scot-free. Plus if a person winds up falling into debt post-bankruptcy they are left with no other option but to try to pay it. They don't care if you're laid off, have had hours reduced, have gotten pay cuts (such as in my case)...they know that if you have a bankruptcy they can and WILL do everything they can to get the money...and medical bills are the worst of the lot. I saw an article in the LA Times about how some bill collectors are being posted in ER demanding payments of people who are too sick or injured to even work! Mind you, in most cases I do believe people should pay their bills and honor any contract they've drafted, but what this "forgiveness movement" is talking about is the USURIOUS mindset of the lenders, and how your loan winds up being up to 7X more than that the original principal, and makes it damn near impossible to pay, especially if people are being laid off or can't find work that pays a decent working wage (again, my case...as it stands now my monthly student loan paymemt is HALF of my net pay!) I bust my hump, earn my degree while raising a kid by myself and then find the damn degree is useless. No one wants to hire you except for secretarial work...and the older you get the more useless and dated the degree becomes. So what's a person supposed to do? suffer for the rest of their lives while the lenders get richer and richer??? Again, some of you are so incredibly judgmental...TRY reading up on a topic and then walk a mile in someone else else and see what they have to go through before making such fucking idiotic comments such as "I think bankruptcy should be for 10 years..."
King Tut:
You probably won't get many arguments from many. If you have obtained and earned a degree, you would know that it has a life-span equal to the amount of time it took you to achieve.
Let's consider all the colleges both online and physical location that will graduate 1000's of students every year. So while your working and probably just to pay off student loans and essential bills to stay afloat 4 years of graduates are now looking for jobs.
It's really very lame to put on your resume a degree, certification that's more than 5 or 6 years received. Your likelihood of getting a job is essentially nill. Nobody's going to hire you when they know University of (X) just graduated 200 individuals in your area of expertise.
And if I spent 3 years going to a US school via student loans and my last year at a Canadian school with no student loans...what then? Going to call up the Canadian university and order them to delete all records?
On another note, you shouldn't be able to walk away from a mortgage and just mail the keys to the bank. Like student loans, you are tied to that house note for the rest of your life, regardless. No bankruptcy for you! Same with student loans.
Deal?
(didnt think so!)
King Tut:
I am one of the people pushing for economic reform, particularly in the area of student loan debt. And in the interest of fairness/compromise, I would be more than willing to lay down my hard-earned degree in exchange for student loan forgiveness. I can't speak for any of the other members, but I believe it would be more suitable for all parties involved to reverse the statutes prohibiting student loan borrowers from filing for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. I'm curious to hear your feedback on my idea for reform. I find that most arguments sway to one extreme or another, namely full forgiveness of student loan debt vs. no reform whatsoever. I don't personally see a problem shooting down the middle and allowing young people with mortgage-size student loans to declare bankruptcy as most holders of financial institution-originated debts are allowed to do. Keep in mind that the consequences of these declarations are severe and would prohibit us from any credit-driven decisions for a minimum of 7 years.
I would certainly opt for either course of action, but it's certain that America cannot remain sustainable if the educated youth cannot contribute to our full economic potential. I would honestly like to engage in some kind of intelligent, respectful dialogue, so please only respond if you have the same intentions. Let's keep it clean. This isn't a Presidential election.
Yes King Toot...because as we all know, young people just love taking courses in college and "racking up huge debts" just for kicks. Of course, we all remember how much fun graduate school was.
Do you really believe that people will go to medical school or law school just because they wish to rack up debt?
NO, people buy flat screen TV's, video games and go out partying with their credit cards for that reason. But,rarely do they spend months filled with semester hours and studying in order to create debt. They go to school because they want to become productive members of society. They want to contribute in a meaningful way and they cannot do those jobs without a degree. Otherwise, they are destined to a life working for minimum wage and limited benefits. Then, people like you will fault them for needing healthcare or food stamps. This is supposed to be the land of opportunity.Its not 'selfish' for a young person to want a better life. Give me a break!
You must work for a lending institution. Otherwise, your comments just seem discriminatory against only this one group of debtors and what might possibly happen while ignoring the much huger abuses that HAVE ACTUALLY OCCURRED.
It is so unfair to blame the students. Yeah there are some who will try to get all they can-scheme scam or not. And there are those not so ethical people who obviously didn't have to give a credit report that are working in the financial aid office.
I think it's an embarrassment to the system "whatever it is" to have so many college graduates filing bankruptcy after enduring 4, 6 or 8 years of college.
Ok, King Tut.
It is true that "nobody put a gun to their head and told them they have to take out these loans".
On the other hand, it might have been the only viable option for some folks to get out from their situation. Yes, I could have opted to NOT go to college, but then, my life would have been radically different (for the worse, I think). And I could not see any way that I would be able to go to college without having taken on debt.
Could I have possibly saved up enough to go to school without incurring debt? No. Even though I earned some scholarships, student loans would have been an absolute necessity. Yes, I was working, but I didn't get to keep much.
Don't get me wrong, my parents had my life's road map marked out for me from the day they got me from an adoption agency. And a higher education was not among their plans for me. In fact, I was told that beyond learning how to type, that was all I should ever learn as a jobskill. My job, as the adopted female, was to ensure that I stayed in the family home with them and take care of them in their old age until they both had passed away. I was not to date, not to have access to a bank account, nor was I to learn to drive a car. I was permitted to learn how to type so that I would be able to get a part-time office job. If they didn't use all the money I made or give it to my elder brother, I could ask for some of it, if I happened to truly need it, but I would really have to justify it. That was the future that was planned for me. There is no way that I could have ever saved up for college just on whatever leavings of my wage income my parents would allow me to keep. Job opportunities were limited to local minimum-wage jobs with no benefits; there was no public transport where I lived. I could only bike so far due to knee injuries.
So, when my friends in school started talking about college, I tried talking about it at home. And I got pretty well emotionally slammed for being ungrateful to them and failing to meet their expectations, I was not being a "dutiful daughter".
I took the SAT and the ASVAB. Did reasonably well on both - 1220 and 90% percentile, respectively. Turned out that physically I probably wouldn't qualify for the military; plus my family made it quite clear that, as they put it, "only whores and dykes go into the military". And they also told me that if I manage to get into the military, they would get me out, saying that my presence was required at home.
At the risk of sounding like a whiner, I felt the situation at home was unfair and overly restrictive - and I wanted OUT. In truth, I was a fairly responsible youth; I worked every summer from age 13 onward and dutifully gave my earnings to my parents. I was in one AP class, a couple Honors classes, and regular classes otherwise. I didn't drink, I didn't smoke, I didn't do drugs. During my senior year of high school, I recognized that as long as I lived at home, the situation would not change. But I had nowhere else to go except the military or college, whichever would take me and whichever I could manage. Even the school guidance counselor supported my position, writing and calling my parents, beseeching them to allow me to plan for a life of more than part-time clerk-typist. My parents finally caved and allowed me to apply to several colleges, believing none would take me. (As they put it, only two types of girls went to college - very pretty ones or very intelligent ones, and I was clearly neither). They were not thrilled when I was accepted. Then when they saw that, as my parents, they were expected to chip in something for college and that I was supposed to also apply my own earnings, they were really upset. They had first assumed that I wouldn't be accepted and secondly hadn't realized that they would not be able to continue keeping my wages. So I had to take out loans that were a bit larger than I would have, to offset what they weren't giving me and also to offset that they wouldn't let me keep all of my earnings.
For me, being able to take out student loans has had a significant impact. No one put a gun to my head, but I wanted more than what my parents had mapped out for me and this was the only way to do it.
I was very lucky that within four months of graduation, I was able to get the first career-level job to get me started. I say I was lucky because I knew of prior year graduates that were literally delivering pizza; I found work in a software development firm by going outside of my major. I was an English major, but seeing that prior year graduates with English degrees weren't finding work, I took a minor in computer programming. I had two simultaneous offers: one for an editorial assistant position that I might not have been able to pay my bills with being barely above minimum wage and a junior programming position which paid 80% more than the editorial position. I took the latter job offer.
I was able to pay off all my loans eventually, so, no, I'm not a deadbeat. It could have turned out very differently though. It was accident that I met a few prior year graduates that couldn't find work, which led me to take programming courses as a backup option - even though my student advisor was adamantly against my doing so.
Part of the problem is that schools don't track (or if they do, they don't publicize) statistics like this:
X% of our graduates find work in their profession
X% of our graduates find work in some other profession
X% of our graduates can't find any work at all
X% of our graduates go to a master's program because the bachelor program doesn't qualify them in their field
But instead do a highly generalized "98% of our graduates find work or continue on to a master's program", leading prospective students to think that the programs are great. Then by the time one is neck-deep in debt, halfway to three-quarters of the way through the program, they're already stuck.
And no, I would not support requiring someone to have their degree rescinded if they couldn't pay back their loan. You can't "return" education and the degree is earned not just by paying for it, but by many hours of studying, attending classes and doing assignments.
On the other hand, if someone wasn't paying back their loan and wanted a mortgage, I'd require getting the student loan out of forbearance and factoring that into their total debt qualification ratios so that they would be paying both the student loan and the mortgage. If you can't pay your student loan, you're not getting a new mortgage.
If someone is smart enough to get an engineering degree from a good school, we should pay him to go! This way we can save your TAX PAYER MONEY by not having to import people who can do those jobs. WE NEED engineers!!!!
Why are you so concerned with someone who has the intelligence and talent to be a major contributor in the progress of our country?
NO...no one put a gun to his head. But the alternative is to work at McDonalds for 15 grand a year when you have the IQ to become much more productive.
I find it sad that you seem to think every student would take advantage of clearing their debts through bankruptcy right out of college...it wouldn't work like that. Bankruptcy is no cake walk.
"When you're in 20's you don't really need a great credit score to get by." Really? You wouldn't be able to rent an apartment (maybe with a very high deposit), high deposits on utilities, higher payments on auto insurance, and employers check credit reports these days. Having poor credit makes it hard for anyone to get by.
Since you're so opposed to bankruptcy, why not support the 10 year repayment plan under H.R.4170, The Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012?
You're funny. Unless someone is in dire straits, they aren't going to be able to get their student loans discharged through bankruptcy straight out of college (if they had bankruptcy protections restored). It is not a cake walk like you think.
10% is what people on the current income based repayment plan pay (which forgives loans after 20 or 25 years). I don't know about other grads, but when I can afford to pay more, I would...I don't get to save. And oh boy, people with student loan debts shouldn't be allowed to save for retirement...that's just wrong...they deserve to have their social security (if it's still around in 20-30 years) garnished. If you ask me, that's just being a complete jerk, someone who doesn't give a crap about the future of our society. Paying more than 10% is a lot for graduates who find themselves un(der)employed and living in poverty. Currently, many pay more for their student loans each month than they do for rent and utilities because there just aren't enough jobs out there. Other countries have similar plans, heck, in Australia, you don't even have to start paying back your loans until your making over $40k+. 10% is fair. Paying 200-500% of what one originally borrowed is not fair. 10% would allow graduates to get married, start families, move out of their parents homes, buy homes (the housing market sure needs that to happen), purchase the goods from small businesses, create businesses and jobs. Oh my. That would just be horrible, wouldn't it?
Naysayers won't ever care what those who support this bill have to say, so, I ask you, what is your solution? (Time travel and predicting the future are not viable options)
I agree kaserz,
In addition, we cannot have a consumer based capitalist society without consumers. If people are so strapped trying to catch up to the escalating interest and usury rates on these loans, they cannot spend. This bill only applies to loans from 2008. The rest of the borrowers will go to their graves with huge debts. These young people starting out will not be able to buy a home, own a business or start a family with the massive debt their educations cost them. The sad thing is that many thought they would make decent money after graduation. What they found was depressed wages, few opportunities and a debt that just keeps growing. Sometimes, they go back to school because they believe that if they specialize in a particular area they will have a chance to make money and get out from under the debt. But sadly, it only means incurring greater debt. Its disgusting that we have come to this. The rich get subsidies, corporate welfare, compensation and bailouts. The average person suffering through illness and recession is judged not like a fellow American but as if he were a parasite for wanting to be a productive part of society.
Which bill are you referring to in regards to those that apply only "to loans from 2008"?
Most people with student loans usually end up paying 2-5 times what they originally borrowed due to usurious fees and interest. So if someone borrowed $25,000 and has paid $30,000 but still owes $40,000 they should still have to forfeit their degree? Or they should continue to pay under the predatory lending system stripped of consumer protections?
Imagine millions of people in that same situation, putting $500 each month towards their student loans, unable to purchase homes, cars, start families, businesses, or even purchase goods from your family business; the very things we need for an economic recovery. Your family business will go under when no one can afford to purchase your goods because of their student loan debt. Imagine millions of people having that $500 to use towards stimulating the economy. Imagine the number of those people who would start new businesses and create new jobs...the jobs so many un(der)employed graduates need.
Actually my idea makes perfect sense but your comparisons don't and that's probably because you have no common sense. I'm comparing debt obtained trying to acquire an object ie. loans for a degree just like loans for a car and loans for a house. Your comparing things that have nothing to do with that scenario ie divorce and last names, repossessed car and drivers license,
unpaid medical bills and broken legs, not paying at a department store and being stripped naked??? These things all having no basis in reality and it's clear you lack common sense.
Now lets compare apples to apples. If you take out a loan for a house and can't pay for it, what happens? You loose the house. If you take out a loan for a car and can't pay for it, what happens? You loose the car. So if you take out a loan for a degree and can't pay for it, you loose the degree!
And fyi, I actually don't have any debt and pay for most things in cash by saving up for them. I don't have a house but I'm actually saving so I can put down a large down payment but I realize that's a hard concept to grasp for pathetic whiner like you.